Curse

Dark Tykane · Jul 07, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

I'm bored lets talk about the new elites and what each of them could be used for. (Even if it is useless or unworthy of being center of a build)
Blood magic
-Cultist's Fervor: For 5-17 seconds your spells cost -7 energy to cast, but you sacrifice 30-18% health every time you cast a spell.

When I first looked at this spell I saw a powerful DAbomb. You sacrifice twice with one sac skill and trigger dark aura twice plus you have the energy management.
Overall though the sacs were too high and unless you have a good monk you will die quickly.
You could also use it as somewhat of an energy management skill but self heals would be needed.
Give me your ideas on what this skill could/should be used for.

-Spoil Victor: For 1-25 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or casts a spell on a creature with less health, that foe loses 5-41 health.

I haven't thought about this skill much and I don't think its really good for much. I know that a 55 could use this to easily solo much anything 55able but it takes a long time to kill just one foe with it. I have also heard this works great if you cast it on a monk as they would more than likely be casting on (healing) creatures with less health than them. Overall this skill doesn't do much IMO.
Please tell me what you think it could/should be used for.

-Vampiric Spirit: 5-17 seconds your spells cost 3 more energy, but whenever you cast a Spell you steal up to 5..41 Health from one nearby foe.

This seems to me like one of the most popularly used factions necro skill. People use it to deal big damage to a nearby foe by using a low cost energy skill such as dark pact to deal 100+ damage for 8 energy. I've seen people also trying to spike with a VS life stealing build. Overall though the skill it is hard to get close to a target to make the spirit trigger on them without being a prime target, and the energy costs are too high to keep up the damage easily.

Curses

-Order of Apostacy: For 5 seconds, whenever a party member hits a foe, that foe loses one Enchantment. For each Monk Enchantment removed, you lose 25...17% Health

To me I think this skill could be a good skill for a utility but the 25 energy cost kind of nerfs it. And the only thing I've seen even bother use it is Iway and thats just lame... Of course I haven't seen many good utility builds lately not even out of the top guilds its been all eles with slowing water hexes, wards, and heal party.
What do you think this would be good for?

-Soul Bind:For 5...17 seconds, target foe attacks 30% slower than normal. If that foe becomes the target of a Hex while attacking, that foe is knocked down.

This skill is very fun to use on a warrior. Just like it says on GuildWiki.org you can use this, faintheartedness, and then continuously use wastrel's worry every time they get up and start attacking, It's great for making a warrior useless but it does no damage and there are already better ways of making a warrior useless.(blinding flash)
I think if this stole a bit of health when it knocked down an attacking foe it would be a great mix with soul barbs....even if it was only 20 or 30 health.
With the 5 second recharge you could also just about spam it on every opposing attacker it wouldnt be a very fast spam though.
Tell me what you think it should be used for.

-Weaken Knees: For 3...31 seconds, if target foe is struck while moving that foe is knocked down and Weaken Knees ends.

This one seems pretty worthless to me. It could make a great cover hex but theres already a non-elite cover hex. I think you might be able to spam it around even though this one also has a 5 second recharge. Maybe if you echoe it or something you could get it on every enemy even though it would do much but knock them down when they are hit running.
Any thoughts?

Death magic

-Animate Flesh Golem
I think this has had enough discussion

-Discord: If target foe is suffering from a Condition and under the effect of a Hex or an Enchantment, that foe suffers 15...63 damage.

This skill is a good damage spam if you carry a low cost condition spell and a low cost hex you can go to town with this skill. I got one complaint about it though and that is that although it says they suffer the damage and it is un-effected by armor, it doesn't penetrate Protective Spirit/Bond.
I want thoughts on this I know people are using it currently as just something to occupy their time before minions are available while MMing but i want to know what else it could be used for.

Soul Reaping

-Icy Veins: Target foe is struck for 10...74 cold damage. For 10...30 seconds, if target foe dies all nearby foes are struck for 20...92 cold damage.

I think this skill could use a change. Even though if your team was a spike or something you could cast this and get the end damage quickly it would be low damage as cold damage seems to never do much

. Maybe if they changed the damage to dark damage it would be good but then they would probably need to lower the damage so it doesnt do that much damage that isnt effected by armor. Or if the recharge time was lowered so it could be spammable and make it like a death nova for enemies, but once again I think they would lower the damage so people don't spam it just for the 93 cold damage.
Any thoughts would be nice.

-Wail of Doom: Sacrifice 10% Health, and target foe is interrupted. If target foe was attacking, all of that foe's attack skills are disabled for 5...17 seconds.

This works great for shuting down attackers because it is so easy to disable attack skills for long periods of time.
Thats pretty much all I have to say about that one any thoughts?

Of course I'm doing this all so I can get new build ideas from the feedback, give out new build ideas, and to get a good discussion going that isn't just about how to play MM or a new SS build that really isn't new or unique at all.(sorely needed here)

Dark Tykane · Jul 07, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

dont tell me I typed all this out for nobody to even look at it......

Zinger314 · Jul 07, 2006, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Everything except Flesh Golem (and possibly Wail of Doom) sucks. End of story.

Dark Tykane · Jul 07, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Everything except Flesh Golem (and possibly Wail of Doom) sucks. End of story.

Maybe for the builds everyone uses right now nobody has bothered using any of it.
I don't think anybody has the right to say it sucks until they read every new skill and converse what would make a good match or a good utility or shutdown

thats one reason i've dont this
many reasons really but hearing it all "sucks" wasn't one

Mr_eX · Jul 07, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

I've been running a Discord spammer build in Fort Aspenwood lately.

Enfeeble + Parasitic bond + Discord spam = dead opponent.

Dark Tykane · Jul 07, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

If people post their thoughts on what could improve the skills also, we could actually have a brainstorm list on what guild wars should do to buff necro skills.
I was pretty mad when all the classes' skills were buffed except for necromancer which just got debuffed when they halved soul reaping from spirits

Tingi · Jul 07, 2006, 12:20 PM // 12:20

split up your post please. It pains me to read it...

Paragraphs FTW?

Dark Tykane · Jul 07, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tan Blademaster

split up your post please. It pains me to read it...

Paragraphs FTW?

I'll split it up between attributes but I figured people would be able to read most any note taking format.

bobrath · Jul 07, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Tykane

Blood magic
-Spoil Victor: For 1-25 seconds, whenever target foe attacks or casts a spell on a creature with less health, that foe loses 5-41 health.

This to me is useful to pick off anyone spamming a spell. If you can pick out an opponent that just churns out spells (whether heals or attacks) and is going after lower hp opponents... well this is a great way to make them pay in blood for it or stop the spam.

Quote:

-Vampiric Spirit: 5-17 seconds your spells cost 3 more energy, but whenever you cast a Spell you steal up to 5..41 Health from one nearby foe.

Touch Rangers should love this one. You're already close, you've got expertise to reduce costs... tho that depends on if Vamp Spirit considers the touch skills as spells.... Not sure (never tried it).

Quote:

Curses

-Order of Apostacy: For 5 seconds, whenever a party member hits a foe, that foe loses one Enchantment. For each Monk Enchantment removed, you lose 25...17% Health

TBH the high cost and low duration make this a very chancy cast. Tho a longer duration would pretty much guarantee the necro's death as 6 removals means 0 hp left. I like it for allowing your team to quickly remove all enchants with no chance of that removal bein interrupted - just make sure your monks are ready for your self inflicted spike.

Quote:

-Soul Bind:For 5...17 seconds, target foe attacks 30% slower than normal. If that foe becomes the target of a Hex while attacking, that foe is knocked down.

Useful in an NPC raid. You can quickly pick off the NPC while this spell and a hex spam negates the returning defender(s).

Quote:

-Weaken Knees: For 3...31 seconds, if target foe is struck while moving that foe is knocked down and Weaken Knees ends.

Use this against flag runners or when you're retreating to give your squishes a chance to get away.

Pick Me · Jul 07, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Okay, just so all of your typing hasn't gone all to waist:

Cultist's Fervor:

Cast this then Inspiration Magic to gain energy (cost 0 but gains x energy).

Cast blood renewal then start casting other sac skills (already must have case Dark Pact) and do damage while regen health

Cast Ele spells like Meteor (25-7 = 18 energy)

Healing Breeze will cost 3 energy to cast.

Spoil Victor:
Dark Pact + sac skills and cast this on a full health target. Arcane Mimicry someone with Cultist's Fervor and start to have some real fun.

Vampiric Spirit:
Don't target people to steal from. Cast Vampiric Gaze, Parasitic Bond, Vampiric Swarm, etc. Its like SS, where you cast it one 1 foe, then attack others around it. Cast this, then target someone that isn't the closest to you. While they attack you, you steal life from them, and you damage your target.

Touch Rangers (whose closer than the one adjacent to you?)

Order of Apostacy:
The way to pummel those under Obsidean Flesh, Spell Breaker, etc.
Arcane Mimicry someone who has Cultist's Fervor and it will lower this spell by 7 energy

Soul Bind:
Cast Parastic Bond then Aftershock

Weaken Knees:
Cast it then cast burning speed. Hit target with wand, run up and cast aftershock. Burning Speed ends and adjacent foes burn.

Animate Flesh Golem:
Walking Death Nova Bomb

Discord:
I think its Condition AND Hex. Cast Fragility+Phantom Pain+Shatter Hex+Discord = conditions met. Damage from Discord and from Fragility

Icy Veins:

Icy Veins+Malign Intervention

Wail of Doom:
Dark Pact

That's all I can think of in short notice (I'm at work).

*lemming* · Jul 07, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

OoA was made for IWAY.

Dark Tykane · Jul 07, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

Okay, just so all of your typing hasn't gone all to waist:

Cultist's Fervor:

Cast this then Inspiration Magic to gain energy (cost 0 but gains x energy).

Cast blood renewal then start casting other sac skills (already must have case Dark Pact) and do damage while regen health

Cast Ele spells like Meteor (25-7 = 18 energy)

Healing Breeze will cost 3 energy to cast.

Spoil Victor:
Dark Pact + sac skills and cast this on a full health target. Arcane Mimicry someone with Cultist's Fervor and start to have some real fun.

Vampiric Spirit:
Don't target people to steal from. Cast Vampiric Gaze, Parasitic Bond, Vampiric Swarm, etc. Its like SS, where you cast it one 1 foe, then attack others around it. Cast this, then target someone that isn't the closest to you. While they attack you, you steal life from them, and you damage your target.

Touch Rangers (whose closer than the one adjacent to you?)

Order of Apostacy:
The way to pummel those under Obsidean Flesh, Spell Breaker, etc.
Arcane Mimicry someone who has Cultist's Fervor and it will lower this spell by 7 energy

Soul Bind:
Cast Parastic Bond then Aftershock

Weaken Knees:
Cast it then cast burning speed. Hit target with wand, run up and cast aftershock. Burning Speed ends and adjacent foes burn.

Animate Flesh Golem:
Walking Death Nova Bomb

Discord:
I think its Condition AND Hex. Cast Fragility+Phantom Pain+Shatter Hex+Discord = conditions met. Damage from Discord and from Fragility

Icy Veins:

Icy Veins+Malign Intervention

Wail of Doom:
Dark Pact

That's all I can think of in short notice (I'm at work).

:\ if you cast dark pact while under the effect of cultist's fervor you will sac 1/4 of all of your life for 50 some damage

The best combo of elite skills you could have here isn't spoil victor and cultists, it is CF and VS know why?
a perfect combo would be dark aura+cultist's fervor+vamp spirit+dark pact
dark pact would cost 1 energy
you would deal 90(DA)+50(dark pact)+50(VS) all with just one skill and it would lower the sac to about 50 if your health is at 400
Thats a lot of damage for a skill that would cost 1 energy and 50 health dont ya think?

MelechRic · Jul 07, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Tykane

:\ if you cast dark pact while under the effect of cultist's fervor you will sac 1/4 of all of your life for 50 some damage

The best combo of elite skills you could have here isn't spoil victor and cultists, it is CF and VS know why?
a perfect combo would be dark aura+cultist's fervor+vamp spirit+dark pact
dark pact would cost 1 energy
you would deal 90(DA)+50(dark pact)+50(VS) all with just one skill and it would lower the sac to about 50 if your health is at 400
Thats a lot of damage for a skill that would cost 1 energy and 50 health dont ya think?

Too bad Vampiric Spirit and Cultist's Fervor are both elite.

Carinae · Jul 07, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Cultists Fervor affects spells from all skill lines. (Hint)

Enfeebling Blood + CF + Arcane Echo + Oppressive Gaze (x2)

In the Duel quest, you can land 800+ hp AoE lifesteals every 3.5 seconds, for 8 energy. It's my Blood Bomber build.

Dark Tykane · Jul 07, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Oh nice I'll have to check it out soon.

Yobz · Jul 10, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Icy Veins - Good for PvE mainly.
use to finish off opponents within a group, or cast on ones very close to death. Cheap energy cost, probably good to use in conjunction with arcane echo.

Cast death nova on minions, cast Icy Veins when enemy close to death, follow up with putrid explosion when enemy dies.

Phoenix Arrows · Jul 10, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Cultist's Fervor - Have a small amount of health and spam HP and Orders and stuff and use Healing Breeze or Blood Renewal or Vigorious Spirit to keep your health up due to amount of sacrifices.

Pick Me · Jul 10, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Tykane

:\ if you cast dark pact while under the effect of cultist's fervor you will sac 1/4 of all of your life for 50 some damage

The best combo of elite skills you could have here isn't spoil victor and cultists, it is CF and VS know why?
a perfect combo would be dark aura+cultist's fervor+vamp spirit+dark pact
dark pact would cost 1 energy
you would deal 90(DA)+50(dark pact)+50(VS) all with just one skill and it would lower the sac to about 50 if your health is at 400
Thats a lot of damage for a skill that would cost 1 energy and 50 health dont ya think?

Cultist's Fervor and Vampiric Spirit are indeed elites, unless you have just capped one and already equiped the other, or an allie has one and you use Archane Mimicry, this combo will not work.

Using Cultist Fervor + Dark Pact + Blood Renewal = sac + health regen + damage to nearby (I think) foes. But the best is for CF + Inspiration Magic, so you can steal energy for % of max health. As a Necromancer, you should easily be able to regain it back.

PieXags · Jul 10, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

As a whole, I was very very disappointed in the new elites they gave necromancers, at least when compared to the ones other professions got. Actually when you get right down to it I'm disappointed with ALL the new skills they gave necromancers in factions. The only ones I use that frequently are ones that are duplicates of existing prophecies skills so I can have two of them on my skill bar.

I don't play MM, so Flesh Golem (probably the neatest new elite we got) is worthless to me, I've tried a discord spammer and yeah it was so-so but only as damaging (or maybe a little less damaging actually) as many many other combinations I'd tried before factions even came out, and those were less conditional. I could find maybe one or two builds where you could get a couple of the new blood magic elites to be worth a shit, but again those were too conditional where you'd build the rest of your skill bar JUST to get that ONE elite to be worth something, and even then it was MAYBE...about the same as what we already had, but again, very conditional. You could get it working out pretty good...until you encountered just about anything else. Wail of Doom is a good skill, I just don't use it that often 'cause I don't really have a problem with attackers with the builds I was already using. I would like to use icy veins a lot more, but it's not really worth an elite slot for it's "it might be alright" damage.

I'll tell you what I think, I think they made necromancers too badass to begin with, so there wasn't much more they could do to make 'em better.

As a whole, the new elites to me are like a really really extravagant mouse trap. You go through all this trouble to buy the parts, build it and get it working so you can execute your plan and capture the mouse, but afterwards you realize you could've just used your foot and killed the damn thing and saved yourself the trouble.

...did that make sense?

Pick Me · Jul 10, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

As a whole, I was very very disappointed in the new elites they gave necromancers, at least when compared to the ones other professions got. Actually when you get right down to it I'm disappointed with ALL the new skills they gave necromancers in factions. The only ones I use that frequently are ones that are duplicates of existing prophecies skills so I can have two of them on my skill bar.

I don't play MM, so Flesh Golem (probably the neatest new elite we got) is worthless to me, I've tried a discord spammer and yeah it was so-so but only as damaging (or maybe a little less damaging actually) as many many other combinations I'd tried before factions even came out, and those were less conditional. I could find maybe one or two builds where you could get a couple of the new blood magic elites to be worth a shit, but again those were too conditional where you'd build the rest of your skill bar JUST to get that ONE elite to be worth something, and even then it was MAYBE...about the same as what we already had, but again, very conditional. You could get it working out pretty good...until you encountered just about anything else. Wail of Doom is a good skill, I just don't use it that often 'cause I don't really have a problem with attackers with the builds I was already using. I would like to use icy veins a lot more, but it's not really worth an elite slot for it's "it might be alright" damage.

I'll tell you what I think, I think they made necromancers too badass to begin with, so there wasn't much more they could do to make 'em better.

As a whole, the new elites to me are like a really really extravagant mouse trap. You go through all this trouble to buy the parts, build it and get it working so you can execute your plan and capture the mouse, but afterwards you realize you could've just used your foot and killed the damn thing and saved yourself the trouble.

...did that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense, but you can say that about every elite skill. Do you need them, no, are they nice to have, maybe. A library book is as affective to kill a stupid fly as a can of Raid is. So why kill monsters to get a skill that the monster using it gets killed? I mean, its like saying I like that sword you have, I'll fight you for it. They guy uses the sword you want, and dies. What good is the weapon you want if you have a better weapon that killed him? For pride? For bragging rights? Is it just because you know how to use the weapon/skill in a better way?

Some skills need time to discover what combos are great with that skill. Some are just good on their own. I don't think the Necromancer received the worst elites in Factions. But I do think it takes a little longer to figure out what other skills are good to use with it.